THE ONE BASIC DEMAND OF THIS PROTEST

Submitted by danielbrummel on

Forums: 

Does anyone not understand the basic message, the one basic demand of this protest???

"THE BASIC MESSAGE OF THIS PROTEST IS that Wall Street is oozing corruption and criminality and its unrestrained political power—in the form of crony capitalism and ownership of political institutions—is destroying financial security for everyone else." (Glenn Greenwald)

The corporate monster is an extremely difficult one to address, and we must keep our energy focused in solidarity.  If this movement is to be successful, it must stick to its guns on this ONE UMBRELLA DEMAND: RESTORE OUR DEMOCRACY BY ENDING THE CORPORATOCRACY.  We must, at all costs, remain in complete solidarity behind this one basic and general demand, and not veer into discussion of other demands that do not fall under this umbrella.  If corporate money were taken out of American politics, and the American government were to become what it perhaps once was and what it has always aspired to be -- a participatory, truly representative democracy -- the public would have a renewed opportunity to express themselves through legislature and public policy, and demands of various stripes would be heard and met.  But at this crucial turning point in this particular movement, OTHER DEMANDS, WHILE OF COURSE VERY VALID, WILL ONLY UNDERMINE OUR STRENGTH because, by definition, they do not have the support of the 99% who are being financially victimized by the 1%.  They are other issues that could begin to be solved once the MONEY IS OUT OF POLITICS.  This is the one issue we can and should ALL get behind.  In order to continue gaining momentum and growing in numbers, this must remain our one overarching demand.

I move that Occupy Los Angeles adopts and releases the following demand declaration, or something similar, as soon as possible:

***

"DECLARATION OF THE DEMAND: Our one basic demand is an immediate end to the corporate rule over our representative democracy. We will take all patient and deliberate actions necessary to ensure that our one demand is met as soon as possible.  We recognize our demand is a general one; it must be so, because it is in response to a endemic problem with multifarious faces.  Rest assured that in the coming days, weeks, and years it will be followed by more specific demands with more focused targets.  We will vigilantly continue our Occupation of Los Angeles until the crux of our one basic demand is met.  We will know that day has come by the shared happiness we will experience as one people, when equal access to resources and the overall equality of wealth have manifested through the demise of the corporate monster."

***

Then, as a demands committee, a general assembly, an occupation of L.A.'s City Hall, and a national movement of occupations, we can move on to discussing more specific actions and demands that help achieve the basic demand.

I write these comments after attending three meetings of the Demands Committee, listening carefully to everyone's inidividual ideas about the movement's demands, and doing more research and coming to understand the nature of what is happening at City Hall in Los Angeles now as it relates to what has happened and continues to happen on Wall Street. Over the last 48 hours in protest mode, my concerns about the demands of "Occupy Los Angeles" and "Occupy Together" in general have grown and changed. We must retain our solidarity on the umbrella demand of the movement so that we can begin to work on strategies to begin to win small battles towards achieving that basic demand.  For those who do not understand how the corporatocracy is stealing our money and ruining our lives, education and outreach programs should be set up to show how all problems stem from the larger economic issue of corporate rule.

Please discuss and revise as necessary!!!

Daniel Brummel

Add on: if you don't like it (I don't) fix the form
Take away corporate "personhood" under the 14th amendment. This is where corporations get their LEAGAL political power, until your reverse SANTA CLARA V. SOUTH PACIFIC RAILROAD (1886), everything you do is useless because what ever change you make will be overturned because corporations are considered a "natural person" aka "human" and are Protected under the bill of rights. So if you make reform they will say it is unconstitutional because it infringes on their "human rights".... So a multi- million dollar business has the same rights as a human being but the power of a god... If you don't know what "corporate personhood" is then look it up.. RIGHT NOW.. go to Wikipedia NOW B4 YOU REPLY TO ME, OPEN A NEW TAB, OR GO TO THE LIBRARY I LEFT COPIES OF AN OUTLINE WITH INFO OCT 9th, say Matt z or Cindy r on it. I will not respond to anyone who dose not know anything about the subject b4 giving their opinion. Don't feel bad if you don't know something, just look it up and then you know all about it. That's how you learn, admit that you have know clue then find out.

A Simple & Unified statement

Submitted by kalliope93 on

Forgive me for posting twice.  Still learning my way around the committees and forums:

Hello,
Last night’s general assembly perceived a need for a simple & unified statement.
Please take what you can use from the below
This message is consciously brief and simple.

 

 1.  War
We are here to express support for the October 6 Freedom Plaza Occupation.  After 10 years of continuous war it is time to end U.S. military actions in Iraq, Afghaistan, and Libya.  Bring the Troops home now.

 

2.  Banks & Debt Slavery
We are here to express support for Occupy Wall Street.  We do not accept the manipulation of our economy by corrupt banks and financial traders.  We oppose the manipulation of U.S. and world economies by central banks such as the Federal Reserve and IMF which expand their power by driving a majority of the U.S. and world populations into Debt Slavery.

 

3.  Democracy & Corporatism
We are here in recognition of the fact that our democratic electoral process has become corrupted by corporate and banking interests.  The majority of elected officials no longer serve the American people.  We seek true democracy free from the manipulation of corporate and bank agendas.  We seek government By the People For the People.

 

4.  Non-Violence
We are committed to peace and non-violence.  Our strength is through numbers and consensus.  We do not use force or aggression to achieve our goals. 

 

This document is offered Open Source with Love for Occupy LA and all Humanity

 

I think we need to focus on point 3

Submitted by david on

Point 1 is far removed from anything most of us are even thinking about. It would only muddle the mission.

 

Point 2 is great, and can be incorporated, but I don't think we can lead with it for one simple reason. We were all complicit in allowing this to happen. We all got too greedy and didn't bother asking where all this money came from. Literally, the American people had a negative savings rate for a few years and were borrowing like crazy. So there is inherent guilt that people will feel, and it really gets confusing. The banks and wall street didn't force any of us to go get a second mortgage or a brand new boat. Yes, I know we were misled, but at least half the responsibility is on us. What kind of irresponsible person goes on a shopping spree and then claims victimization and coerced slavery. I don't buy it. Everyone knows bankers are capitalistic parasites by nature as they are supposed to be. They are the epitome of capitalism.

Point 3 That's why it is the government's job to protect us from these parasitic weasels. Point #3 is the most solid, because when money starts to influence politics, it is a big no no. The way the Federal Reserve has inherent control over our government's funding as a private corporation is a direct conflict of interest and is highly illegal according to the constitution.

By directly influencing the economy through rates, they, as a private bankers can captilize on bust and booms they create! In fact, they are the biggest inside traders in the world! And to have the government be complicit to this (funding this) - affecting our policies, decisions on wars, our media, and everything we do. HUGE NO NO!

Of course there is lobbying and how the Glass-Steagall act was reinstated, I have no idea. But I think the Federal Reserve's influence on the government is probably the biggest.


We are the Revolution!

 

Thank you for your reply

Submitted by david on

I think this is a very good point. I understand that we are divided as a people by labels and party-identities which is why we need a unifying force. However, you must consider that the human mind likes simplicity which is why most advertisements only have one core message. What you are talking about is called shotgun advertising, and while it catches a larger demographic, it usually performs poorly, because it is diluted by trying to cater to all. Only if you are a super large brand can you really afford continuous shotgun ad campaigns ie Coca Cola.

Secondly, consider that this single issue of money influencing politics afffects all races, parties, and classes except the top 1% negatively.

Thirdly, occupy wall street already has a sort of a brand. There is momentum going about the corruption of banks and government together. To rebrand would take away a LOT of momentum.

Fourthly, I promise you that every single demand that people want is tied back to money in politics. Racism, toxic food, war, and all financial problems are cause by the elite keeping the people in a state of fear and confusion. Don't focus on the surface material, that is what they want to use to confuse us and pit us against each other. It is simply a feeling of lack and hatred they want to promote. Hit the elite where it hurts - money... everything else will fall in place.  

If we must educate the public on such corruption issues to unify them, then so be it. At least we will be passionate about it. And with passion, perserverence is assured.


Thank you.

We are the Revolution!

 

My $.02

Submitted by Aml1954 on

First I'd like to say KUDOS! to all who have helped organize Occupy L.A. I've been following the movement and sincerely believe we are missing out on an opportunity to attack, dissect, expose, retaliate, and stand up against corporate media! I really believe that's where we need to shape the focus in L.A. Great that social media is helping a lot with organizing activities (look what happened in Egypt!), but we have to find a way to take on corporate control of the media. I'd like to look into picketing Fox News (Fox Entertainment is HQ'd at 10201 W. Pico in L.A.) The way I see it is New York has Wall Street, Los Angeles is the TV Entertainment capital of the world. And I think we can all agree that Faux News is not journalistic in any way, but it does the dirty work for the corportacracy spin 24/7. Let's not forget that Ronald Reagan became famous as GE's spokesperson and is still honored by them - see http://www.ge.com/reagan/ I'm coming down tomorrow to City Hall, and would very much like to meet up with anyone interested in helping stage a protest at Fox HQ. GE doesn't seem to have a HQ presence here that I can find, but they do own NBC (and keep tight rein on MSNBC's "liberal" perspective). Email me at aml@discover-films.com or tweet me @aml1954

respect existence
or
expect resistance

What is needed, is voter

Submitted by Laura on

What is needed, is voter legislation on public servants responsibilities and punishments.   We the need people to have the ability to FIRE regulators, inspectors, up to and including their bosses for not doing their jobs!  We need to end the "resign, but with full retirement benefits" punishments that are the standard now!  We need the ability to sue them personally in tort court if their illegal actions have caused us harm!  We need Congress drug teste!, I am sure they are walking around in a haze of anti depressants and pain killers (paid for courtesy US).  We need to hold them accountable, and as they do more damage to our country than drug dealers, harsher penalties than the Drug War offers!  I have an outline on this I made during Impeach GWB days!  Remember:

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. 

Thomas Jefferson 

 

A sort of direct democracy

Submitted by david on

Yes, I completely agree with this. And it must be grassroots selected commitee representatives that organize this. To leave it up to bureaucracy would just give us the same result - empty promises, loop holes, and inefficiency. LOL about the drugs... they probably need it to cover up the guilt.


If we are going for this, we will need more than 1/3 of the country to rise up and protest. It took 10% of the US took several years of protestin to stop vietnam. Now we are talking about stopping ALL corruption - war profiteering, financial scams, and lobbying. This whole racket earns them trillions of dollars. Imagine you are trying to stop a Mexican Cartel operation worth trillions of dollars. Do you think they will let 10,000 protestors stop them? If you even reach 1 million people, they will fight you tooth and nail using media, sabotage, and everything they've got. What I'm saying is that we need to be strong enough to prepare for that. We need to reach 100,000,000 Americans to commit!

We are the Revolution!

 

blah blah corps. Why not solve REAL PROBLEMS WE have

Submitted by Halt I am Alex on

I disagree with this whole demand. IT IS NOT FEISABLE OR REASONABLE

Why not just demand reforms to corporations?  (probably because you do not know what you want to how to achieve it)
Lets start small
-in 2010 EVERY democratic incumbent in CA was relected.  They are robbing us blind.   Lets bring attention to this.  

 -Taxes in California are too high and causing unemployment by driving business our of California.  
   -tax monies(even those earmarked for specific projects) are stolen by the states general fund and waisted.  (on such things as the broken pension system)
 
-to fix pensions we need to return to a funding level of before 1994 or stop giving pensions. (accounting or buisness people know what this means)
 
  

To resist is to piss in the wind, anyone who does will end up smelling.  
Knowing this why do I defy, my inner voice is yelling.   

Yep, how about that law, that

Submitted by Laura on

Yep, how about that law, that a minimum of 8 years service can collect full retirement benefits!?  Where did they come up with that?  Oops, that was a Repub move.  But still....that Dem/Repub thing is to distract you from elite/99% issue.  And you fell for it  rotfl

 

A Non-partisan proposal: Elections reform

Submitted by Fallout2man on

If the core demand is to remove corporate governence and to remove money from corporate governance I forward the following proposal for a solution. If we understand the core problem is that money is corrosive, a source of influence and power and as the ultimate gatekeepers to money the financial sector weilds a dispraportionate share of that power and use it against the rest of us to further enrich themselves to our detriment.

To do this we need an Elections Reform amendment to the U.S. Constitution. I have targeted four key areas of reform that I believe, if addressed via constitutional amedment, will remove the vast majority of influence money weilds in politics. First of all where does the politician get bought? During election time! So we must end this by:

1: Mandatory public financing of all elections.

Desc: We need national elections standards for all national, state and possibly local offices. We should require these elections be publicly financed. We have more than enough resources and abilities to make this equitable. It won't happen overnight but we can create groups to do more comprehensive research into how much money should be allocated, how it should be allocated etc. The big point here is that no candidate running for office may accept any funds from themselves or any other person to their campaign, only public funding is allowed.

2: Ban Soft money

Desc: We must understand that influence weilds its heads in all sorts of forms. Issue ads, while they may allow certain groups to air their grievances, also do a great dis-service by providing an avenue where money can indirectly influence a campaigning politician. Now I can understand the worry some people might have that their voices will get lost, but please read on for why I believe this will not be a problem.

3: Mandatory public elections participation

Desc: We can hardly call our democracy representative if 60% is considered a good turnout. We need to make election day every two years a national holiday and require voting. We need turnouts to be higher.

 

4: Preference/Instant Runoff voting in every national election (if not statewide too.)

Desc: This is where we break the cycle and return power back to the people. Our support for politicians is as varied as their are issues to vary on and we want a field of candidates wide enough to reflect the views of everyone so that issues get discussed and people don't feel disenfranchised by the system. Instant runoff is a small reform with a big impact. Now we can have viable third parties without constant cries of being a trator from the big two. Everyone's vote counts equally and people are able to make their more distinct and nuanced voice heard louder than ever before.

 

I believe all of these reforms attack the core problem, are non-partisan, and would go along way towards achieving the overall occupation goals of removing the power wealth has in politics.

You forgot about voter

Submitted by Laura on

You forgot about voter approval for all public servant benefit increases.  No government contracts to countries that do not share financial information with U.S.  Limiting the amount of foreign contract $ spent for all government contracting needs - 40% of total spending in the country (and the current popular way to get tax-free, not reportable payoffs from corps.).  And dumping the Congressional Ethics Committee for a drafted college professor group!  With the right to fire inspectors and regulators NOT DOING THEIR JOBS!  That stealing from the people be declared Treason, with mimum penalty of loss of all assets and voter rights (if not EXILE), to include non-public servants like Doctors defrauding MediCare!  Much more is needed for the people to properly supervise the scoundrels!

monster's picture

Simplify the Message / Unify the Cause

Submitted by monster on

I completely agree with the topic of this forum. Stand under one goal. 

I would further push that this movment come up with a simple, yet, unifying message. 

Example: The American Revolution was built around: "No Taxation without Representation" 

It was a simple message that the general population could understand and get behind. This movement needs the same thing. 

Also - Last night a (WIP) "list of demands" was read aloud and it sounded like a spread shot of issues that have nothing to do with the occupations going on in New York and other cities around the US. 

This is about Wall Street / Coperate influence that has rendered our Government useless when it comes to acting as a voice of the citizens who vote these people to power. We vote - but they don't answer to us anymore. Even if we vote one corrupt politician out - there is another corrupt politician there to take their place. 

This is about removing those avenues for private parties / corperations to influence our politcal system so OUR GOVERNMENT can enforce rules and regulations that protect the American people from being swindled by the greedy and the heartless.

I ask, or propose, that this not be about War or Social Issues as this moment in time. Keep the message focused on one thing for now. Also remember that a lot of the other issues we want addressed stem from the fact that our Government is corrupt. Once we fix the corruption, then we will have the avenue to address other policy changes. This isn't going to, neither can it be, fixed over night.

One thing at a time. Ending Wall Street / Corperated Corruption in Government is the first step in getting out country back in the hands of the people. Only when the people have control can we discuss other changes in Government. Remember we do not all agree on certain issues - but as a country - we can agree that we are sick of getting robbed and lied to. 

So again, I ask / propose, that the list of demands is slimmed down into 1 demand. Single unified mission to end corruption. 

The Occupy NY has a great mission statement outlining facts / examples of corperate greed / abuse. Take a page out of their book. Unify and support the movements. When another occupy movement starts up (San Diego starts on the 7th) Make Contact! Get them informed. Get them unified. Show that this one movement is growing. 

United We Stand - Divided We Fall. 

Thanks for reading. Wish I could be there. 

/\/\

 

Bring the Wall Down

I agree

Submitted by david on

Even though I feel we need to completely change the whole system and have written at length about it, I actually do agree we need to focus and stay unified. I agree with your mission statement: Take money out of politics so Americans can stop being ripped-off!

Everything else will fall into place when the time comes. When people become aware of how they have been BLATANTLY cheated by the very people they trust, they will start to doubt everything else. This doubt and sense of injustice will then spread to every other issue we can conceive.

We are the Revolution!

 

Obliterate the Ethics Committee

Submitted by Laura on

If we just got legislation to change the Ethics Committee to citizens, citizens then make the judgements when payoffs are made, campaign rules are broken, and start pressing charges on all the HUNDREDS of criminal activities already reported to the current Congressional Ethics committee (ask former D. Rep. Waxman, right here in L.A.) by the Oversight Committee, instead of going to the next political fundraiser (for their personal charities) they go to court, need bail... along with changing the general "malfeasance in office" (covers any crime but sex) being declared Treason (how unPatriotic can you get?) with minimum penalty of loss of all assets and voter rights.  It could start restoring the balance, return the power to the People.

SWARMtheBANKS's picture

Yes but it's a triangle, corporations, wall street, politicians

Submitted by SWARMtheBANKS on

I am a firm believer in creating more personal freedom by reigning in the debt mobsters, aka the bankers. Debt monsters can be reigned in by simply changing one law.  Change "Restructuring a debt is a Default" to "Restructuring a debt IS NOT a Default and you help change the world for the better.

www.occupynews.net, www.swarmthebanks.com, www.bankprotests.com, www.parallelforeclosure.com, www.unfairforeclosures.com, www.daily-protest.com, www.bloggersagainstchasebank.com www.robotsagainstchase.com, www.credit-protector.com

L_Bristow's picture

End Game

Submitted by L_Bristow on

If the end of the corporatocracy is the ultimate goal, is the revocation of the 14th Ammendment from "corporate citizens" not part of our solution?

 

Can we take the 14th Ammendment back?

YES! for MovetoAmend

Submitted by rickycat on

Both are correct.

1.  Campaign Finance Reform - key to getting our democracy back.

2.  MovetoAmend:  Corporations are not people AND money should not equal speech.

Once they are cut off from influencing with their money,  our country will be a much better place.

Kick Wall Street OUT of Health Care
Rickycat loves http://www.PNHP.org

Campaign finance reform is not enough

Submitted by Laura on

As I said, you can write Campaign Reform all you want, they wrote in all these allowable campaign "privacy" laws for themselves.  The Congressional Ethics Committee is the one who decides if the investigated illegal actions ,as investigated by the Oversight Committee, and then referred to them to turn over to the Attorney General for court.  And the Ethics Committee obviously look at that as a Do-Nothing Job, because that is what they do!  Unless they take a real dislike to someone and want/need to drum them out of office! They have only concerned themselves with 4 or 5 cases in the last decade - and that includes Jane Harman's no deposit was required for her cell phone (she had 12 years with the company already-company policy was 10 years no deposit)!  Whoops, that's too late for Clinton's sex lie, so 3 or 4.  Oversight Committee has referred THOUSANDS of charges, of public servants/government subcontractors/lobbyists/organizations set up as a fronts for corporations or media... donating to candidates.... over that time. With their own "judicial system", doesn't matter what they do!  With corporate/politician activities/relationships/crimes being processed through the Congressional Ethics Committee and NOT U.S. courts or the People, there will be tyranny.  

"...There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our overthrow. ... Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

 

Simply changing rules

Submitted by Fallout2man on

Simply changing rules regarding defaults do nothing to address the influence of money in politics and the legal system. What we are fighting is the corrupting influence money has over both the political and legal system. If we understand the problem is concentration of money is able to rig the system in its favor we have to find a way to remove that power entirely.

Simply changing loan terms does not achieve this. We must remove money's influence from politics, I would advocate, by elections reform. To remove its influence though from the criminal justice system is a much harder and more ornerous problem. I think most of us can agree that it's not fair that Sony or BMG can reach into the stratosphere for a statutory damage awared so high as to effectively sue a family into generational poverty just because their kid might've liked Brittney Spears a bit too much.

Before we can remove money's influence in the criminal justice system though we need to understand how money can and is currently being used to manipulate it. Right now, through patent and copyright legislation large companies like Apple, Microsoft, Motorolla, and others are building patent portfolios filled with obvious patents that while they may easily be invalidated act as a bludgeon against small business. Because small business cannot possibly hope to afford to fight to have them overturned. Look at what happened to Bleem. They won their court case, but the cost bankrupted them.

The first way money hijacks the legal system is to prevent the plaintif and defendent from being able to pursue an equally valid claim of law to fruition. Public defenders are only awarded in criminal cases, but many of the new types of abuses of the legal system occur outside of the criminal court system and inside the civil court system. One potential solution to this would be to extend and expand the system of public defenders so that every citizen has good representation in every court case.

Then the second way money hijacks the legal system are through outrageous damage awards, mentioned above. Copyright awards are issued under statutory damages, because as they were originally envisioned to be shutting down large counterfitting operations (which ran for profit) copyright damages are hard to calculate and so a very high bar was set. These awards can be up to 150,000$ per file per connection recorded. This means that someone could technically be pursued, at the leisure of a mega-corp, for damages ranging in the millions or billions of dollars. This hangs like a specter over the entire proceeding. Damage awards in court cases, especially statutory damages need to be capped. We need tort reform...for the people (and not medical providers) so that each time damages are awarded they are relative to one's ability to pay and measured in proportion so they reflect an appropriate amount of harm done to the person involved, as they do to the company involved.

Damages being hard to calculate should not give companies a blank check to reach into the stratosphere to decide how much blood they want to squeeze from their next stone.

The third way money hijacks the legal system is through complicit companies acting together. We noticed when Mastercard, Paypal and others unilaterally cut support for wikileaks because "uncle Sam's real angry with him right now!" and that was that. These companies violated their service agreements and many others do the same and possibly their own privacy guarantees to comply with demands from the U.S. Government or other companies looking to sue. Many ISPS will give their customer info to BayTSP or your local media mogul if they ask really nicely.

We need to ban this sort of complicitness. Some kind of policy that would punish companies who violate their agreement to service an individual without him having broken any of their terms of service, without a legal challenge issued in court. Mastercard I'm sure will make all sorts of arguments about how it was necessary and would've been expensive. We need to force companies like this, under penalty of law, to take the government or any other competing entity to court so that they don't have to reveal our information. I'm really not sure about this one because it's the hardest demand to coalesce into an idea regarding policy.

We need to be informed of these types of backroom deals and be able to, somehow, prevent them when they're so obviously unfair. It should never be okay for an oligarchy of payment processors to declare someone an "un person" without trial, it's just a violation of our social contract. Because those companies are removing someone's ability to buy or sell anything without the accused having any just recourse.

 

But all these flow forth from the core idea. We must remove corporate influence and preference of wealth from our government and from our legal system. Someone who has more money should not be more just, fair, equal or be more able to pursue justice, equality and fariness under the law as the other. We are already seeing this abrogated through the civil court system, and through congress' current refusal to do anything bold on Jobs.

Just my two cents. :)

 

l_bristow: It's not quite that simple either. Corporate personhood was a sound byte that evolved from a decision, specifically Citizens United V Federal Elections Comission. It effectively declared that a company was a person because by restricting the actions of companies in politics you restricted the acts of shareholders to cast their political support behind one candidate or the other.

To reverse Citizens United we need a strong elections reform amendment, which is one of the things I've proposed. That way we can counteract the influence of money in politics.

yes, understood and agreed

Submitted by OccupyLA on

yes, understood and agreed with the original post.

And a few core steps to begin such a process aka getting money out of politics, in order for the media to stop saying our demands are too general:

Abolish corporate personage; current lobbying needs to end/be abolished. Top 1% need to pay their fair share (bush tax cuts must expire). The Federal Reserve needs reform (this is the hardest step, but at the very least, we need to be able to audit it, without any B.S.!). These are the TRUE CORE of our current problem. Once we do that, the politician­s are forced to become more receptive to the people. Its about getting money out of politics.

 

-mono

Some do, some don't and some

Submitted by OccupyLA on

Some do, some don't and some are just against the movement. I am aware, but the more clear specifics we set forth, the better. That is why i gave more specifics when i was interviwed for La Opinion news paper yesterday in the morning and it was printed.

OccupyLA (Which I can guess

Submitted by Fallout2man on

OccupyLA (Which I can guess is a shared account): If we're going to abolish all lobbying then what would you have us do in its place?

Actually I recently noticed that the White House had implemented a system for the public to petition government directly. Now possibilities like this excite me! But if we're to go so far as to remove lobbying we need to also put forth a counter-proposal so that the good lobbying was meant to do (allowing people with legitimate grievances to take them up with government) can be done, without the bad (lobbyists from big companies using their spending power to buy influence.)

Also, abolishing corporate personhood needs to occur on two fronts. Money is considered speech, and while a corporation itself isn't considered quite the same as a person the idea behind the Citizens United decision was that since money was speech, that restricting corporate contributions was the same as restricting what a shareholder could individually do with their money. This can be fixed via elections reform.

The second way a company gets treated as a person is by the legal system. Increasingly companies are awarded rights that are not strictly necessary to the survival of a company as a legal fiction. This is much harder to handle though and quite honestly may only be do-able long-term via appointment of sympathetic judges.

Overall the most realistic goal is we could shoot for a constitutional amendment. This is a once in a generation event so I think it's big enough we should be able to do something, well, profound, to fix the way things are. Constitutional Conventions are also possible, and Lawrence Lessig is currently trying to get many interested in the idea. I think that'd be great if done right but we also have to worry if we were to invoke a constitutional convention of whether or not certain states would secede from the union over petty issues.

Still doing some more thinking about the issue. We have the primary goal of getting the money out of politics/law. But there's also one other important sphere we may need to touch, the media. Through the media and through bias, spin and bad statistics we've also been able to be led by the corporate system to the point we're at now. Warning bells should have sounded sooner, but they did not, this protest and others should've been covered sooner, but they were not.

This is an even harder issue to tackle than the legal system. But if we really want to say that we've made reforms strong enough to prevent this from happening again then we also absolutely have to address the role that the media played. We were kept in the dark, kept misinformed and misled and distracted. Hell, Fox has argued in court that it has the right to lie over the air. We also need to really consider some sort of media reforms so that we can ensure that this sort of thing won't ever happen again. The media made us our own enemies, NEVER AGAIN.

This actually isn't a shared

Submitted by OccupyLA on

This actually isn't a shared account, i just simply run occupyla.org (not to be mistaken for occupylosangeles.org)

If anyone is interested in getting bedhind somethign in regards to getting money out of politics:

http://www.getmoneyout.com/

Dylan Ratigan and a former lobbyst set that up.

This is to try to make it illegal for these entities to buy out a politician from the start of their campaign.

This is a start!

And by ending lobbying in its current state in the system, i meant getting money out of it as well specifically. Genuine grievances by the people are taken over by greivences with more "money" to spend. That White House petition stuff they set up on the internet is a nice alternative, but i'm sure there are core factors that could be considered in the current system as well, just might need some reform. However, I would actually love to sit in a group, possibly at a GA, and perhaps draft out something from people's ideas, behind this goal.

Sloganized

Submitted by nobody on

Human rights for human beings, not corporations.

Democracy means rule by the people, not rule by money.

The freedom to speak and be heard is more important than the freedom to buy advertising.

Rather than support the contorted logic of some case law, I'd prefer to simplify and get back to our simple premises.

What about the payoffs after

Submitted by Laura on

What about the payoffs after they are elected?  None of that is mentioned.  The private charities politicians set up once their campaign expenses are paid and give the job managing the funds obtained to their kids?  Many are offshore, in countries that exchange NO financial info with U.S. (like GWB's).  Sure, keep it clean until election, then, Corp.s go wild?!  The Ethics Committee is implicit in this, typical punishment, retirement with full benefits and look, we have this job for you, you'll be making more money now!

Great point

Submitted by jdubb on

The movement is toast if the core demand is diluted by everyone's gripes with the world.  Don't let Occupy turn into a directionless complaint group, which is exactly what the mainstream wants.

 

Inspiration and formal education of the scope of our problems

Submitted by david on

The People's Support. Any intellectualized demands will not hit the hearts of the people. They have been programmed by mass media to be shields of skepticism, hopelessness, and cynicism. This must be in my opinion a movement that provides well structured demands as well as love. How we talk to each other during assemblies.. our tone of voice, our appreciation and respect for each other beyond view points and obsessive details. Let us be supportive and commend people just for speaking no matter what they say. Let this be an open space of acceptance.

We need to show we are ALIVE! Let our space be a demonstration of the future! By the looks of it, there is plenty of that already.. free healthy food, donations, compassion for homeless even though I think one of them stole my phone..IM PISSED but bless his little heart. Music, joy, dance.. stories, sessions on inwardly touching our being/our essence, circles of healing and embracing one another.. this is the direction I think we need to head in to make a real impact for everything else is just illusionary details. Being happy in the midst of ALL of this.. injustice, pain, and busyness. Happiness and love has always been free. It has been free since the day we were born. People have just forgotten. If we just remind ourselves and others, the rest will fall in place and the people will follow.

We should NOT be mired in busyness ALL the time. Let us have times of peaceful gatherings just to enjoy eachother's presence... it is in the end all that is truly important. Let us bring change through inspiration!


Education Of How Dire Our Situation Is and Why We Must Push for World Change


I'm not sure if a lot of people know what we are up against. Our country is on the very verge of COMPLETELY collapsing! Every single person owes 200,000 usd on average on a personal, state, and federal level. If we don't push for something drastic, this will make the great depression look like a joke.


1. We need to set up a formal education system within the occupy movement so that every single one of us understands the depths of these problems in a simplified format. We need to have citations for this knowledge-base so people can confirm it by themselves and not be associated with "looney theorists". If we don't have a common knowledge base, we will waste our time on agendas that are short-sighted or do not even fit reality. If we don't have unified awareness, it will weaken our resolve.


2. We need to understand that reforms and amendments such as lobbying rules and accountability will not make a big enough dent
    given the breadth of the problem.


3. Bigger demands among us such as ending the Federal Reserve/"forgiving various debts" start to be in the ballpark of making a   real difference. Now we are talking about real revolution  - which I agree with. It undermines the center of their plans. If we make demands on this level, we have to acknowledge the reality of how epically deep our shit hole and we need to have detailed solutions to transition beyond this.

Ie. Financial solutions to forgive our debts can be found here. http://abolishthefederalreserve.org/ This link also shows how powerful bankers have actually even funded both sides of nearly every major war in this century - starting them, enabling them, and elongating them! They are also ruthless enough to kill us slowly through toxic foods and our medical sytem. They've even structured our entire economic, political, and media systems to be one big propagandized pyramid scheme. They've got it down to a science. Understand what we are up against is sociopathic and very very powerful.

4. But beyond this we also need to look at how economics really works and what is the foundation. Quite simply - oil. It completely controls our standard of living. If banks are about controlling distribution, energy generation is about controlling abundance. If we are to provide our  people with a future vision, we need to look at how we propose to increase clean, sustainable energy production. See thevenusproject.org


These solutions will be replicated in other countries when they've seen what we've done. We are talking about world change. Anything less will not intimidate and will result in only a dent on their armor. Anything less is selfish, ignorant, or fear driven(I need to be polarized here to drive my point. Not meant to offend).

All this being said, I admittedly have no idea how and when we should present such ideas. They seem looney even within our own circles. I think by grounding it in love, it makes a lot more sense. So I say to whomever this resonates with, let's keep this knowledge inside and when it feels right, inspire others with it. It should be inspiring not forced and argumentative.


Here is an article supporting that the Occupy movement's ambition is actually in line with everything I've talked about here even though I may seem very extreme. Whether we know it or not, we as a whole ARE looking for a revolution of the world - an "evolution" of our planet.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edward-murray/occupy-wall-street-protest_b_988341.html

We are the Revolution!

 

Demands -pros and cons

Submitted by Lee on

I had an old (89 years old) radical friend who listed to me 3 principles for a life time of movement organizing:

1) work with a few people you really get along with (affinity group)

2) always have one demand that will definately not be met (otherwise the movement ends when the demands are met instead continuing to transform society for the better)

and I sure wish I could remember the third!

Anyway, on the one hand if we don't put up a few specific demands, then other people try to misstate what our demands are--for example, the head of the AFL-CiO claiming the demands are a few measly reforms that probably are already part of the Democratic Party's platform. On the other hand, if we just ask for a few major demands that might possibly be met in the next few years, such as higher taxes on the wealthiest, more regulation of banks etc. that doesn't really take back the country from the plutocrats and give everybody real democracy and opportunity. Sometimes it's not good to be too specific , or the demands just don't encompass the breadth of the movement. Ie, should we just ask for bigger Pell grants and forgiveness of student loans, if we really want free higher education for all, even though we know we won't get it anytime soon? Free higher education for all is part of the State of California's official Master Plan, passed in 1960!  Why does it seem so far off now!!!!

 

Leone

Simple solution, add a final layer of democracy.

Submitted by MalibuRev on

I think the core issues will rise to the top.  Recent supreme court ruling that corporations are people and therefor can make limitless bribes or campaign finance to get their employees elected into office is a very hot topic among the disenfranchised public. The original "tea party" was in protest of taxation without representation. That was only 4-5 generations ago.  Now we find ourselves in the same boat so to speak.  Sure you elect one of the politicians paraded in front of you during a campaign but, he/she represents the corporations that pay for his/her support.  Because of this, Wall street has become a conglomerate of global empires which control most major economies in the world, without accountability. I would call that imperialism under the guise of democracy. The term for this is Oligarchy (a structure in which power effectively rests with a few prominent people whom rely on public servitude to exist).  
I propose one simple solution which if achieved can umbrella all peoples concerns and grievances, a minor change to the legislative process which will effectively add a layer of democracy to our representative republic.  A change so basic, anybody who opposes it would be saying "I don't want to have a vote". 
I propose an amendment to add one final layer to our legislative process... Public Ratification by popular vote.

How would this work you ask? 
Two simple ways. First downstream.  There will be 12 voting days per year. Once a bill passes congress and is signed by the oval office, it then is put on a monthly ballot in line item format.   Only items achieving 51% of the popular vote, in the bill will be ratified and become law.  Second, upstream. A proposition system much like california's whereas citizens can get a proposition placed on the ballot for popular vote.

How does this relate to the occupation?

Wall streets biggest fear has always been the popular vote.  First there would be a huge sucking sound as corporate dollars leave capital hill.  That money would most likely be diverted to elaborate advertising campaigns designed to convince the public to continue corporate welfare or the need to invade more countries.  Involvement won't be easy at first. For centuries the public has been trained to be sheep.  It will take awhile for many to learn to seek truth and think on their own. 

Buying the government is expensive, buying the public is cost prohibitive.

Then we can teach our children we live in a true democracy.

Otherwise, Wall Street will continue to buy representation, and the 99% (servants) will have to continue to occupy to be heard.

Seek Truth

slogans

Submitted by mtownsend on

Having read all the excellent commentary and sugestions here, it seems bite size slogans such as the follwing would be most useful:

Greed Is Bad

Rule by People, Not by Money

 

DEMANDS

Submitted by radprod1 on

government by the people, for the people, not the 1% and/or corporations
corporations are not people,
education not endless wars
tariffs on imports to create American jobs

This is where it should start, more can follow. It's not that hard and everybody should be on point.

DEMANDS

Submitted by radprod1 on

government by the people, for the people, not the 1% and/or corporations
corporations are not people,
education not endless wars
tariffs on imports to create American jobs

This is where it should start, more can follow. It's not that hard and everybody should be on point.


 

use you tube "flash mob" to get out message!

Submitted by diabloelk on

I'm an Independent voter. I think you need to have a chosen leader, a strong measured person who can articulate your grievances and fight for you/us at rallies.  Also, need a name for your movement, like the Tea Party, who have been fairly successful. You can then mobilize voters, via social networks or TV, to vote against any politician who thinks the banks and Wall Street aren't greedy and controlling our wealth. Good Luck!


 
Turn this movement into a "Voter Bloc". Try to get it to go viral through You Tube - maybe using a "flash mob" approach! You need to fight Wall Street/Bankers greed through the voting process. Vote out every politician who stands for the greedy entities!

socrates crimes's picture

BECAREFUL OF THE WORD "DEMANDS"

Submitted by socrates crimes on

To present demands is to be open to counter-demands. WE ARE NOT YET OPEN TO COUNTER DEMANDS. We need to focus on organization and increased attendence to the phsyical occupation in Los Angeles, New York, Wherever. To suggest we have a list of demands could hinder that basic, imporant objective: We need 99% of the 99% before we can collective resolve any pronounced Demands!!

I've created a forum titled "Language and Media in and around Occupy Los Angeles." Please join and get involved to help shape the language we effectively use to further our cause!

http://occupylosangeles.org/?q=node/456

Thanks!

~SC

Leave me then, Crito, to fulfill the will of God, and to follow whither he leads.

Demands

Submitted by JoviMan on

We all want nothing more than this movement to succeed and effect real change that benefits working Americans.  I respectfully submit that this movement absolutely needs a list of demands.  Multiple experts on social movements have cited the lack of concise demands as a fundamental flaw of the Occupy movement that may eventually render it futile.  The demand list should be brief (two or three points) and focused on getting money out of politics i.e. campaign finance reform, lobbying reform.  As many have posted here, the unfair influence on public policy by the wealthy, be they individuals or corporations or yes, even large labor unions, is a universally recognized problem that the 99% can rally around.  Otherwise, as others have posted, this movement leans too far to the left, alienating the other half (if not more than half) of this country.  I truly believe this is why we don't yet have the numbers we want...we're just too all over the place.  The Declaration on the home page of Occupy LA, although valuable and true, is too broad.  We must be laser-focused with a few universally recognized specific demands and specific, attainable step-by-step goals for fulfilling those demands.  The International Day of Action on 10/15 is a positive first step to coordinate this movement with others.  Hope to see everyone there!

 

Progressive Populism

Submitted by Lee on

Occupy Wall Street/We are the 99% is I think a progressive populist movement. I use the term progressive very broadly, to indicate that it is not a right wing populist movement like the Tea party or Citizens United-those are movements that scapegoat minorities and immigrants, the unemployed and public services/ public sphere as the cause of their problems, instead of wall street, the top 1% etc.  I don't think we should only have two or three concise demands, because i think we want to reverse the trend in this country that is away from democracy and toward one of the biggest gaps between the rich and the poor ever--that will not change with just a few concise reform demands. 

The unions are not part of the 1%. They represent a portion of the 99% that is organized, which is mainly a plus. But once an organization has been around for a long time there tends to be a layer of bureaucracy that is stifling--it needs a grassroots upheaval to get back to its mission of giving workers the ability to counter their corporate employers' power with their own. Occupy Wall Street can galvanize and create the conditions for that upheaval. But since unions like the CIO were created to limit corporate power, I don't think you should see them as enemies but as allies.

 

Leone

on unions

Submitted by Supersean on

Unions gives lots of money to campaigns and are political actors. How can we say that money from corporations corrodes our republic but money from unions does not? Is their money a different color too? Is this a case of four legs good, two legs bad?

a few thoughts

Submitted by Supersean on

Hello everyone.

I think that having a simple message is of the utmost importance. I'm all for 'end the corporatocracy'. That's it. No more words. At this point, the movement is not in a position to do anything about it, so let's keep it as simple as possible. If the aim is to get the 99% to realize they are part of the 99% the most important feature of the message should be that it doesn't turn people off. 'demand' is a bad word, we should be very careful not to use words with negative connotation. Think along the lines of Frank Luntz, you may not agree with his politics, but he speaks the language that media likes.

By now y'all have seen that the GOP is using the whole OWS movement as a rallying point for their base. Now is the time for a bit of message discipline. I hate to step on any toes, but we should avoid anything Marxist in tone, even a word like 'collective' has a negative connotation to the average American. We should refrain from all negatives, this is a trick I learned from years as a salesman, and it works. Even if you say you 'don't like evil' you are working against yourself, better to say what you do like. We should refrain from all namecalling, this can be difficult when emotions run high but that's why its called discipline! Finally, I'd advise all of us to refrain from indictments of all sorts, again, very difficult in practice but nobody wants to hear a litany of misdeeds perpetrated by your enemy. Simply put, nobody likes a tattletale.

These are just some thoughts on language I'd like to see used. Remember, language is the only weapon. To use it to one's advantage requires imagination and discipline.

Sean

 

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