Thanks to Alex Walker who caught a portion of my question to Robert Reich at yesterday's OccupyLA teachin. I wish Alex had caught the first part of the question. My major point was that it was BILL CLINTON (Democrat with a Goldman Sachs CEO as his Secretary of the Treasury (Bob Rubin -- later chair of Citibank (DC/NY Revolving Door)) who sold out U.S. workers for Wall Street. NAFTA was singularly responsible for the transfer of at least 26 million American jobs to China and other third world slave labor circuits. Bill Clinton (doing the bidding of Wall Street bankers) drove that process forward. The Democratic Party legitimized a Fortune 500 & Wall Street outsourcing that has fundamentally ripped away real productivity from the underlying U.S. economy. We now have a faux service sector economy that simply isn't competing successfully with the likes of China, Taiwan/Thailand, and Germany. Its a huge problem. The real roots? : DEMOCRATIC Compliance with Wall Street bankers interests. Don't support the Democratic Party. Enough already with their constant enabling of a false choice, banker wars & labor outsourcing, and -- most importantly -- their very real protection of the selfish interests of the top 1%.
Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb. No choice. OBAMA : CHANGE YOU SHOULDN"T HAVE EVER BELIEVED IN. Goldman Sachs/Citibank/Bank of America proxy agent.
NAFTA is the North American Freet Trade Agreement, which consist of Mexico, Canada and the U.S. China entered into it w/ the WTO. Very good points otherwise. So-called freet trade hurts working peolple in all countries.
On October 10, 2000, United States President William Jefferson ("Bill") Clinton signed a historic free trade agreement with China. Since 1980, the trade agreement with China was reviewed yearly and continuance was uncertain each time; the new free trade agreement provided China an open market and paved their way into the World Trade.
The following is to show the sell out of the average American is a Bi Partisan effort. Their all filthy nasty dirty evil no matter what party they steal by.
But the wholesale slaughter of the American middle class doesn't end with NAFTA. It was immediately followed up by another Clinton initiative and victory with the aid of a Democratically controlled Congress subjecting America to the World Trade Organization, another boondoggle that savaged the American worker and has resulted in Chinese poison foods and other dangerous products entering U.S. markets.
In discussing the WTO, Republican Newt Gingrich admitted that by "transferring from the United States at a practical level significant authority to a new organization" that America would indeed experience radical changes in our system of governance. In his own words, Gingrich summarized the WTO, "This is not just another trade agreement. This is adopting something which twice, once in the 1940's and once in the 1950's the U.S. Congress rejected. I am not saying that we should reject it; I, in fact, lean toward it. But I think we have to be very careful because it is a very big transfer of power."
My picture reads
"Sell a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you ruin a perfectly good business opportunity."
The few mistakes Clinton made were possibly influenced by the success his yearly budgets were having on the U.S. economy. Once the U.S. looked solid economically, of course one reaches out to other countries such as Mexico and Canada.
Glass Steagall ammendment was first veto'd, then once it went back to congress and got 90% approval, Clinton signed it since his veto would have been meaningless anyways.
Glass Stegall needs to be reimplemented. Clinton is the only president in the past 80 years to lower the yearly budget deficit for 8 consecutive years.
There's a reason that Soros dropped his support of Hillary Clinton and went for Obama. Hillary Clinton was not just going to be a Soros yes man and Soros could not stand the thought.
Soros used his wealth to support MSNBC and Keith Olbermann, Media Matters, Move on Dot org, Huffington Post, and a few other important democratic strongholds. Soros and Arianna Huffington once appeared on the same Charlie Rose show promoting their books, I sincerely doubt it was a conincidence. I presume that Soros paid for the hour of time and shared half of it with his friend, Arianna Huffington.
Glass Steagall amendment was first vetoed, then once it went back to congress and got 90% approval, Clinton signed it since his veto would have been meaningless anyways.
Glad he had a Good reason for not standing up for us. BTW, why didn't he direct the Attorney Generals office to investigate Citicorp in 1998 for violating the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 & the Bank Holding Company Act of 1956, instead of allowing, the Federal Reserve to give Citigroup a temporary waiver in September 1998. You could never convince me he didn't know better. BTW it doesn't make him any worse than the rest, just that he was no better either. The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intention's.
The administration faced political opposition in 1994 when Republicans took control of both houses of Congress but Clinton was reelected in 1996, after a failed attempt at health care reform. The administration had a mixed record on taxes but produced the first federal budget surpluses since 1969, for fiscal years 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001, leading to a decrease in the public debt (though the gross federal debt continued to increase). Clinton supported the North American Free Trade Agreement, which he signed into law in 1994. His presidency saw the passage of welfare reform in Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act which ended Aid to Families with Dependent Children and reduced much needed welfare programs. This received support from both political parties. He also signed the reversal of the Glass-Steagall Act which was designed to prevent financial institutions from getting too big to fail. He also signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act which legalized over-the-counter derivatives, Clinton saw the escalation of the War on Drugs prompting a swell in the prison population from 1.4 to 2 million.
My picture reads
"Sell a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you ruin a perfectly good business opportunity."
Not sure whether it's your understanding or your statement of history that's off, but the above is incorrect. (I don't mean this as an attack, just a correction.)
Glass-Steagal was passed in 1933, and most of what was left of it by 1999 repealed by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act (GLB), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, a version of which (iirc) Clinton may have threatened to veto but ultimately did not, which ultimately passed the senate 90-8 and the house 362-57. It was pushed hard by Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, later Chairman of Citigroup, and thus clearly had administration blessing. Congress largely drank the plutocracy flavored kool-aid, despite the fact that it was obvious to anyone with a clue that this was tearing down one of the most important protections in the financial system, under the rubric of "greater efficiencies and financial innovations" (now known to include the proliferation of credit default swap trading, hedge funds, unrestricted mortgage securitization, proprietary trading....)
There isn't much of a connection between that and Clinton's surpluses. If anything, Clinton owes much of that to George P. Shultz's strategem of "making everyone a capitalist" (and also shifting reliance away from social security) by diverting money flows from defined benefit pensions to 401Ks and Roth IRAs, which fueled the 90's stock market bubble when all that money had no where else to go regardless of the actual quality of underlying investments and so would reliably be dumped into a growing bubble on a regular basis.
Of course I'm with you 110% on the need for re-enactment of Glass-Steagall.
Hmmm, which part is incorrect please, my commentary or the fact's and dates as presented off the linked page, which is the same source you refference, or all of it?
Thanks'
alhs06
My picture reads
"Sell a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you ruin a perfectly good business opportunity."
So if you don't support the democratic party in elections then are you going to vote republican or just not vote at all? Because, as much as I hate the two party system we have, by voting for a third liberal party, you only let the right wing win. In my opinion, this is worse than having a democrat in office. I do agree with Robert Reich in that we need to put pressure on elected officials, especially the democratic party, to reflect what we want not what the corporate interests are. But not voting for them at all is a terrible idea in a two party system.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn
Last I checked the voting box was private. So I'll leave my voting preferences to myself.
If you can't trust me to stand next to you in SOLIDARITY of the 99% revolution without sticking your nose in my or anyone else's voting business then maybe we shouldn't stand next to each other. Because I know people who ask those nosy questions are only asking to make sure the ones being asked are voting the same as the ones doing asking.
I can't say this enough, "Promote & Protect The 99%, Promote & Protect Solidarity"
My picture reads
"Sell a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you ruin a perfectly good business opportunity."
Easy there alhso. I wasn't demanding anyone divulge their voting preferences. I was responding to the OP that we not vote democratic. I was commenting on a two party system that is broken. If you are going to get so personally offended by something like that, I don't know what to tell you. My feelings will always be this: Know what what you are voting for. Know what the issues are and make your decision on that not on what some pundit or news anchor tells you. Cast your vote independently after analyzing who the candidate is that best embodies the ideas you think are important.
Are you actually saying that because we disagree that we cannot still be the 99% together? I don't have to agree with you politically to stand with you in this matter. It's not actually a partisan issue. There are reps in both parties that have contributed to the problem of deregulation and corporate greed. This IS a political movement, or at least needs to go in that direction otherwise there is no way to pass the reform necessary to make our government reflect and represent the 99%.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn
I don't know how you vote and honestly I couldn't care less. You actually misinterpreted what I was saying when it was a rhetorical question. You took it as me asking people's voting preference and that was not what I was doing at all. But I think by de-politicizing this movement, it is a mistake. It just shouldn't be a partisan politics but rather about voting for candidates who reflect your personal views and are not bound to Wall Street.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn
So if you don't support the democratic party in elections then are you going to vote republican or just not vote at all? ~ (**was that the rhetorical question?) ~ Because, as much as I hate the two party system we have, by voting for a third liberal party, you only let the right wing win. In my opinion, this is worse than having a democrat in office. I do agree with Robert Reich in that we need to put pressure on elected officials, especially the democratic party, to reflect what we want not what the corporate interests are. But not voting for them at all is a terrible idea in a two party system.
invictus99 you then wrote
I don't know how you vote and honestly I couldn't care less. You actually misinterpreted what I was saying when it was a rhetorical question. You took it as me asking people's voting preference and that was not what I was doing at all
Which part was rhetorical? Maybe your deff of rhetorical is different than mine.
Definition of RHETORICAL (Merriam-Webster) a: of, relating to, or concerned with rhetoric b: employed for rhetorical effect; especially: asked merely for effect with no answer expected <a rhetorical question>
Okay, I'm done, I guess Sanity really is over rated. ... LMFAO :D
My picture reads
"Sell a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you ruin a perfectly good business opportunity."
Hey, let's not resort to insults or inuendo about sanity, hmm? It doesn't forward a discussion. If you are offended by what I said, I apologize. Given the way that Rancho Larry posts, I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that he was ascribing to progressive, liberal, or even socialist ideals. My question was directed at him and was in fact rhetorical since someone who identifies with those ideals would likely not be voting Republican. Though, there are always those Libertarians LOL. My question was not a broad demand asking anyone to divulge how they vote, though honestly, even if we are not of the same political party, I see no reason why we (collective we) can't occupy together. I think that only makes the movement that much stronger.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn
A third party or a big independent movement like OWS that participates in electoral politics can run local candidates, and can run challengers to bad incumbents in all kinds of elected offices from city to state to federal.
I heard a USC poli sci professor expound on NPR (confession: I listen to NPR OCCASIONALLY) that the main way big poltical changes occur in the US is when a powerful grassroots movement puts pressure within one of the main parties and forces its agenda on the political elite running that party. I believe his examples included the tea party favored Republican candidates now in Congress, and pressure from civil rights movement and other movements on the Democrats in the late 60s, early 70s. But the New Deal is probably also a good example.
But I would like to believe that millions more voters becoming independents could result in the 2 party establishments losing their stranglehold on elections and on the issues. So often we have 2 pro-war presidential candidates as well 2 corporate candidates etc.
Absolutely! I'm a registered Democrat, but I don't always agree 100% with the Democratic party, especially at the national level. It's just that my values most line up with Democratic party values. I think it is important to not shoot ourselves in the foot by creating a 3rd party on the national level prematurely. I'd love a multi party system ultimately and agree that it is actually a much better way for representative government, but we need to get there slowly so as not to set ourselves back completely by letting the corporate cronie candidates win more and more by how divided our votes are.
I mean as it stands now, we often have a pro-choice and pro-life candidate. I'm guessing some Republicans could give two shits if a woman is allowed to have an abortion but they agree more with the fiscal policies so they ahve to go along for the ride through religion and uterus politics too.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn
The dirty little secret among Republican campaign types is that while they like to use the issue to run on, and will get behind legislation that restricts abortion, they're not exactly anxious to really finally abolish abortion because it would take that issue off the table and they'd lose the dependable support of a segment of the electorate which is anti-abortion but pro-social spending (including many Catholics) to the Democrats.
My Bro Rancho Larry's thread is likely to piss off those of you who have a problem shedding your "Party Loyalties" in the quest for truth & in the name of truth. As it's all the established politicians of every party who are guilty of submitting to the Controlling Party, the Party of Greed, The Party of the 1%.
Before you challenge the assertion, research the assertion, make sense?
MY Loyalties lay with the SOLIDARITY of The 99%, who are ABOVE ANY & ALL PARTY &/OR AFFILIATION LINES, capiche? And, so should yours be ...without the But's!
My picture reads
"Sell a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you ruin a perfectly good business opportunity."
Tell it like it is is the most important thing we can do for eachother these days. I hope everyone watches the video of Mr. Reich because that's what HE DID - Tell it like it is...
AND get out of your box and tell your House rep that a vote for their Internet Killer bill on TUESDAY is a vote to END THEIR political career. THIS is a biggie folks....
Forget the title here You GOTTA read this and then contact your House Rep to ask why Congress is following in the footsteps of China with these Internet "SAFEGUARDS"? And ELIMINATING due process in taking away a domain name from its owner AND Freezing their bank accounts for 60 days. Will Facebook.com be confiscated because it is such a huge source of Copyright Violations and out right sedition?... If this bill passes THAT is EXACTLY what could happen. Are those guys kidding us or what. BTW This bill was sponsored by, oh lets say those guys on the right side of the room. WHAT are they thinking? That we are all too stupid or asleep to NOTICE they are going to once again try to put the fix in, rig the game and factually violate the US Voters they are sworn to serve? Geeeze folks do the process here. Spread this and act on it, please.See MoreWhy Is Justin Bieber So Hackin Mad? | Save the Internet
www.savetheinternet.com
Justin Bieber is pissed off and you should be, too. What's made Bieber so angry? A bill in Congress that could rip apart the open fabric of the Internet and let corporations censor free speech. The "Stop Online Piracy Act" or SOPA gives private
www.savetheinternet.com
A handful of corporate hardliners in the Senate are introducing a "resolution of disapproval" that would give phone and cable companies unrestricted power over the Internet. Call your senators now and urge them to reject this free speech-killing resolution.
Thanks Everybody..
Rancho Larry
Robert Reich on Why we SHOULD NOT support the Democratic Party
Submitted by OccupyTheRoseParade on
Robert Reich on Why we SHOULD NOT support the Democratic Party :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz6VU7vLwtE&feature=youtu.be
Thanks to Alex Walker who caught a portion of my question to Robert Reich at yesterday's OccupyLA teachin. I wish Alex had caught the first part of the question. My major point was that it was BILL CLINTON (Democrat with a Goldman Sachs CEO as his Secretary of the Treasury (Bob Rubin -- later chair of Citibank (DC/NY Revolving Door)) who sold out U.S. workers for Wall Street. NAFTA was singularly responsible for the transfer of at least 26 million American jobs to China and other third world slave labor circuits. Bill Clinton (doing the bidding of Wall Street bankers) drove that process forward. The Democratic Party legitimized a Fortune 500 & Wall Street outsourcing that has fundamentally ripped away real productivity from the underlying U.S. economy. We now have a faux service sector economy that simply isn't competing successfully with the likes of China, Taiwan/Thailand, and Germany. Its a huge problem. The real roots? : DEMOCRATIC Compliance with Wall Street bankers interests. Don't support the Democratic Party. Enough already with their constant enabling of a false choice, banker wars & labor outsourcing, and -- most importantly -- their very real protection of the selfish interests of the top 1%.
Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb. No choice. OBAMA : CHANGE YOU SHOULDN"T HAVE EVER BELIEVED IN. Goldman Sachs/Citibank/Bank of America proxy agent.
---
http://www.occupytheroseparade.org ; occupytheroseparade@gmail.com.
NAFTA clarification
Submitted by pompeytodayLA on
NAFTA is the North American Freet Trade Agreement, which consist of Mexico, Canada and the U.S. China entered into it w/ the WTO. Very good points otherwise. So-called freet trade hurts working peolple in all countries.
China entered into it
Submitted by alhs06 on
On October 10, 2000, United States President William Jefferson ("Bill") Clinton signed a historic free trade agreement with China. Since 1980, the trade agreement with China was reviewed yearly and continuance was uncertain each time; the new free trade agreement provided China an open market and paved their way into the World Trade.
(link) http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1991037#ixzz1cxk31Xxx
The following is to show the sell out of the average American is a Bi Partisan effort. Their all filthy nasty dirty evil no matter what party they steal by.
But the wholesale slaughter of the American middle class doesn't end with NAFTA. It was immediately followed up by another Clinton initiative and victory with the aid of a Democratically controlled Congress subjecting America to the World Trade Organization, another boondoggle that savaged the American worker and has resulted in Chinese poison foods and other dangerous products entering U.S. markets.
In discussing the WTO, Republican Newt Gingrich admitted that by "transferring from the United States at a practical level significant authority to a new organization" that America would indeed experience radical changes in our system of governance. In his own words, Gingrich summarized the WTO, "This is not just another trade agreement. This is adopting something which twice, once in the 1940's and once in the 1950's the U.S. Congress rejected. I am not saying that we should reject it; I, in fact, lean toward it. But I think we have to be very careful because it is a very big transfer of power."
Bill Clinton lowered yearly budget deficit 8 consecutive years,
Submitted by OccupyNews.net on
The few mistakes Clinton made were possibly influenced by the success his yearly budgets were having on the U.S. economy. Once the U.S. looked solid economically, of course one reaches out to other countries such as Mexico and Canada.
Glass Steagall ammendment was first veto'd, then once it went back to congress and got 90% approval, Clinton signed it since his veto would have been meaningless anyways.
Glass Stegall needs to be reimplemented. Clinton is the only president in the past 80 years to lower the yearly budget deficit for 8 consecutive years.
www.occupynews.net, www.swarmthebanks.com, www.wallstreetchange.com, www.bankprotests.com, www.dailyprotest.com, www.parallelforeclosure.com, www.credit-protector.blogspot.com, www.myalexlogic.com, www.bloggersagainstchasebank.com,
Hillary Clinton was dropped by Soros who went Obama instead.
Submitted by OccupyNews.net on
There's a reason that Soros dropped his support of Hillary Clinton and went for Obama. Hillary Clinton was not just going to be a Soros yes man and Soros could not stand the thought.
Soros used his wealth to support MSNBC and Keith Olbermann, Media Matters, Move on Dot org, Huffington Post, and a few other important democratic strongholds. Soros and Arianna Huffington once appeared on the same Charlie Rose show promoting their books, I sincerely doubt it was a conincidence. I presume that Soros paid for the hour of time and shared half of it with his friend, Arianna Huffington.
www.occupynews.net, www.swarmthebanks.com, www.wallstreetchange.com, www.bankprotests.com, www.dailyprotest.com, www.parallelforeclosure.com, www.credit-protector.blogspot.com, www.myalexlogic.com, www.bloggersagainstchasebank.com,
Glad Mr. Clinton had a Good reason for not standing up for us
Submitted by alhs06 on
Glad he had a Good reason for not standing up for us. BTW, why didn't he direct the Attorney Generals office to investigate Citicorp in 1998 for violating the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 & the Bank Holding Company Act of 1956, instead of allowing, the Federal Reserve to give Citigroup a temporary waiver in September 1998. You could never convince me he didn't know better. BTW it doesn't make him any worse than the rest, just that he was no better either. The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intention's.
Here's a little more history on President Clinton, the good n bad, (full text found here) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Bill_Clinton
Not sure whether it's your understanding or your...
Submitted by ultrarad on
@OccupyNews.net:
Not sure whether it's your understanding or your statement of history that's off, but the above is incorrect. (I don't mean this as an attack, just a correction.)
Glass-Steagal was passed in 1933, and most of what was left of it by 1999 repealed by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act (GLB), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, a version of which (iirc) Clinton may have threatened to veto but ultimately did not, which ultimately passed the senate 90-8 and the house 362-57. It was pushed hard by Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, later Chairman of Citigroup, and thus clearly had administration blessing. Congress largely drank the plutocracy flavored kool-aid, despite the fact that it was obvious to anyone with a clue that this was tearing down one of the most important protections in the financial system, under the rubric of "greater efficiencies and financial innovations" (now known to include the proliferation of credit default swap trading, hedge funds, unrestricted mortgage securitization, proprietary trading....)
[ https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80... ]
There isn't much of a connection between that and Clinton's surpluses. If anything, Clinton owes much of that to George P. Shultz's strategem of "making everyone a capitalist" (and also shifting reliance away from social security) by diverting money flows from defined benefit pensions to 401Ks and Roth IRAs, which fueled the 90's stock market bubble when all that money had no where else to go regardless of the actual quality of underlying investments and so would reliably be dumped into a growing bubble on a regular basis.
Of course I'm with you 110% on the need for re-enactment of Glass-Steagall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Radical also means staying critical and not drinking anyone's kool-aid.
but the above is incorrect.
Submitted by alhs06 on
Hmmm, which part is incorrect please, my commentary or the fact's and dates as presented off the linked page, which is the same source you refference, or all of it?
Thanks'
alhs06
So sorry....
Submitted by ultrarad on
I neglected to paste @OccupyNews.net at the top of that. Many apologies, alhs. Correcting.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Radical also means staying critical and not drinking anyone's kool-aid.
No worries or appologies needed
Submitted by alhs06 on
No worries or appologies needed.
Respect
So if you don't support the
Submitted by invictus99 on
So if you don't support the democratic party in elections then are you going to vote republican or just not vote at all? Because, as much as I hate the two party system we have, by voting for a third liberal party, you only let the right wing win. In my opinion, this is worse than having a democrat in office. I do agree with Robert Reich in that we need to put pressure on elected officials, especially the democratic party, to reflect what we want not what the corporate interests are. But not voting for them at all is a terrible idea in a two party system.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn
then are you going to vote republican? Thats my business TY
Submitted by alhs06 on
Last I checked the voting box was private. So I'll leave my voting preferences to myself.
If you can't trust me to stand next to you in SOLIDARITY of the 99% revolution without sticking your nose in my or anyone else's voting business then maybe we shouldn't stand next to each other. Because I know people who ask those nosy questions are only asking to make sure the ones being asked are voting the same as the ones doing asking.
I can't say this enough, "Promote & Protect The 99%, Promote & Protect Solidarity"
Easy there alhso. I wasn't
Submitted by invictus99 on
Easy there alhso. I wasn't demanding anyone divulge their voting preferences. I was responding to the OP that we not vote democratic. I was commenting on a two party system that is broken. If you are going to get so personally offended by something like that, I don't know what to tell you. My feelings will always be this: Know what what you are voting for. Know what the issues are and make your decision on that not on what some pundit or news anchor tells you. Cast your vote independently after analyzing who the candidate is that best embodies the ideas you think are important.
Are you actually saying that because we disagree that we cannot still be the 99% together? I don't have to agree with you politically to stand with you in this matter. It's not actually a partisan issue. There are reps in both parties that have contributed to the problem of deregulation and corporate greed. This IS a political movement, or at least needs to go in that direction otherwise there is no way to pass the reform necessary to make our government reflect and represent the 99%.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn
invictus99, slow down & re-read my post
Submitted by alhs06 on
Take your time, try reading my post again & this time comprehend it. You are to quick to poke me back without actually knowing why.
How do you know we disagree on anything in the voting booth? Be honest not defensive.
I don't know how you vote and
Submitted by invictus99 on
I don't know how you vote and honestly I couldn't care less. You actually misinterpreted what I was saying when it was a rhetorical question. You took it as me asking people's voting preference and that was not what I was doing at all. But I think by de-politicizing this movement, it is a mistake. It just shouldn't be a partisan politics but rather about voting for candidates who reflect your personal views and are not bound to Wall Street.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn
invictus99
Submitted by alhs06 on
invictus99 wrote
invictus99 you then wrote
Which part was rhetorical? Maybe your deff of rhetorical is different than mine.
Okay, I'm done, I guess Sanity really is over rated. ... LMFAO :D
Hey, let's not resort to
Submitted by invictus99 on
Hey, let's not resort to insults or inuendo about sanity, hmm? It doesn't forward a discussion. If you are offended by what I said, I apologize. Given the way that Rancho Larry posts, I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that he was ascribing to progressive, liberal, or even socialist ideals. My question was directed at him and was in fact rhetorical since someone who identifies with those ideals would likely not be voting Republican. Though, there are always those Libertarians LOL. My question was not a broad demand asking anyone to divulge how they vote, though honestly, even if we are not of the same political party, I see no reason why we (collective we) can't occupy together. I think that only makes the movement that much stronger.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn
let's not resort to insults or inuendo about sanity, hmm?
Submitted by alhs06 on
I was speaking of myself as I adamantly prescribe to the belief that "Sanity is over rated"
I have used it as my sig for years, it is not an insult but a fact I base on personal experience with other's. PMSL
All due respect & No offense to you my comrade in arms!
Creative 3rd party politics--maybe not by 2012, but....
Submitted by Lee on
A third party or a big independent movement like OWS that participates in electoral politics can run local candidates, and can run challengers to bad incumbents in all kinds of elected offices from city to state to federal.
I heard a USC poli sci professor expound on NPR (confession: I listen to NPR OCCASIONALLY) that the main way big poltical changes occur in the US is when a powerful grassroots movement puts pressure within one of the main parties and forces its agenda on the political elite running that party. I believe his examples included the tea party favored Republican candidates now in Congress, and pressure from civil rights movement and other movements on the Democrats in the late 60s, early 70s. But the New Deal is probably also a good example.
But I would like to believe that millions more voters becoming independents could result in the 2 party establishments losing their stranglehold on elections and on the issues. So often we have 2 pro-war presidential candidates as well 2 corporate candidates etc.
Leone
Absolutely! I'm a registered
Submitted by invictus99 on
Absolutely! I'm a registered Democrat, but I don't always agree 100% with the Democratic party, especially at the national level. It's just that my values most line up with Democratic party values. I think it is important to not shoot ourselves in the foot by creating a 3rd party on the national level prematurely. I'd love a multi party system ultimately and agree that it is actually a much better way for representative government, but we need to get there slowly so as not to set ourselves back completely by letting the corporate cronie candidates win more and more by how divided our votes are.
I mean as it stands now, we often have a pro-choice and pro-life candidate. I'm guessing some Republicans could give two shits if a woman is allowed to have an abortion but they agree more with the fiscal policies so they ahve to go along for the ride through religion and uterus politics too.
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn
[an aside]...actually...
Submitted by ultrarad on
The dirty little secret among Republican campaign types is that while they like to use the issue to run on, and will get behind legislation that restricts abortion, they're not exactly anxious to really finally abolish abortion because it would take that issue off the table and they'd lose the dependable support of a segment of the electorate which is anti-abortion but pro-social spending (including many Catholics) to the Democrats.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Radical also means staying critical and not drinking anyone's kool-aid.
Rancho Larry, PULLED THE TRIGGER OF TRUTH
Submitted by alhs06 on
My Bro Rancho Larry's thread is likely to piss off those of you who have a problem shedding your "Party Loyalties" in the quest for truth & in the name of truth. As it's all the established politicians of every party who are guilty of submitting to the Controlling Party, the Party of Greed, The Party of the 1%.
Before you challenge the assertion, research the assertion, make sense?
MY Loyalties lay with the SOLIDARITY of The 99%, who are ABOVE ANY & ALL PARTY &/OR AFFILIATION LINES, capiche? And, so should yours be ...without the But's!
THANKS for your support and SAVE the Internet for US!!
Submitted by Rancho Larry on
Tell it like it is is the most important thing we can do for eachother these days. I hope everyone watches the video of Mr. Reich because that's what HE DID - Tell it like it is...
AND get out of your box and tell your House rep that a vote for their Internet Killer bill on TUESDAY is a vote to END THEIR political career. THIS is a biggie folks....
Forget the title here You GOTTA read this and then contact your House Rep to ask why Congress is following in the footsteps of China with these Internet "SAFEGUARDS"? And ELIMINATING due process in taking away a domain name from its owner AND Freezing their bank accounts for 60 days. Will Facebook.com be confiscated because it is such a huge source of Copyright Violations and out right sedition?... If this bill passes THAT is EXACTLY what could happen. Are those guys kidding us or what. BTW This bill was sponsored by, oh lets say those guys on the right side of the room. WHAT are they thinking? That we are all too stupid or asleep to NOTICE they are going to once again try to put the fix in, rig the game and factually violate the US Voters they are sworn to serve? Geeeze folks do the process here. Spread this and act on it, please.See More Why Is Justin Bieber So Hackin Mad? | Save the Internetwww.savetheinternet.com
Justin Bieber is pissed off and you should be, too. What's made Bieber so angry? A bill in Congress that could rip apart the open fabric of the Internet and let corporations censor free speech. The "Stop Online Piracy Act" or SOPA gives private
Protect the Open Internetwww.savetheinternet.com
A handful of corporate hardliners in the Senate are introducing a "resolution of disapproval" that would give phone and cable companies unrestricted power over the Internet. Call your senators now and urge them to reject this free speech-killing resolution. Thanks Everybody..
Rancho Larry
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